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okay, so....NO.unless they are being beaten for being in a country they did not ask to be taken to, hung from trees for merely existing or trying to obtain the basic right of all CITIZENS while being hosed down like rabid dogs, they are out of line for even suggesting this kind of correlation.They are undergoing a movement alright and i hope it is more in the direction of the US/Mexico border (if they are illegal) than towards the halls of the senate and congress. Because my neighborhood school and hospital can not take very much more.
so a group must be...beaten for it to be considered a civil rights movement? black folks have the monopoly on that term?(just throwing it out there & asking)
According to CNN, there are reportedly over 7 million illegal immigrants in the US. 70 percent of them are Mexican. I honestly feel that most of the people are hardworking individuals and families that are trying to make a living. They work hard, pay taxes (not file), and definitely contribute to this economy. They not only put money into a lot of powerful pockets, but they also take less pay for doing it! Most people talk about our taxes and job stealing and whole lot sh*t that seems trivial in reference to human life and the pursuit of happiness. I'm just not feeling the crunch and I could give a damn if I have to pay a little extra in taxes. They have anything to do with these damn gas prices and that's for sure!!!!One more thing...keep in mind that America is probably at the top for being a racist ass society and I'm not just talking about white people (but esp white). Any non-white person that comes into this country legally or not will always catch some king of hell. Thanks.
I'm sorry...They don't have anything to do with these gas prices~! :)
i have to agree w/ Stephen. while driving to work yesterday & today, i was...so UPSET by the reaction of my fellow black people (i was literally talking back to my radio & trying to call in). their comments were not only insensitive, but some were downright racist. things that, if said by a white person (or non-black person) about a black person, would have caused a fight. i was amazed at how some of the black callers were wrapping themselves in the Red, White and Blue, in opposition to the immigrants. while most of the Latino callers were pretty much asking for our support.growing up in So. Cal, i have lived side-by-side with Latinos my whole entire life. i don't really care what their status is, because as much as America complains about its system being drained (which, i'm not convinced it is), the US has consistantly gone from country to country and drained (or stolen, or raped, or tourtured) their land (and people). so i find this whole thing very ironic. what did Malcolm say about chickens coming home to roost?
coalition building. backsiders of the world unite. the world is a bigger place than black america. wasn't malcolm headed in that "we" need rights direction anyway? he was going global. no point fighting. if not black folk's destiny, it's the destiny of any would-be future struggle. got the feeling martin woulda took it there too. i love my black folks in america, but we represent soemthing bigger than america. we always have. american government represents something bigger than america. it does now... if anything, use this fight to remind black folks we still got some shit to march our asses about too. even if it's just to remind them that we should be thinkin' 'bout it 'bout it. whatever it is... and y'all know there's a lot of (sh)it.(that was my first cyber rant. i feel like a blogger now)
I have a son in a southern california school where there are literally 37 eleven year olds in one class.I have a healthcare premium of $86 per month and a deductible of $1000 (just for me) before I can get any input from my company. My husband, who is an experienced flooring expert can not get a job supervising crews becuase he does not speak spanish.The word illegal is not a throwaway term. It suggests that there are a set of laws that people need to abide by. If we expect citizens to abide by the laws of this land is there any reason we should not expect illegal immigrnats to do the same.We could debate whether or not the country should take actions that would make it easier/more feasible to enter the country and work leaglly but do not try to sell me that ILLEGAL immigrants should be granted american civil rights, as they ARE NOT americans. And every contrbution they are making, they are making illegally.Trust me, when a brotha sells drugs to keep his family fed, nobody marches in the streets and says he's contributing to our economy and taking care of his family. In fact, they arrest his ass.
Once again, these follow up stories and second day angles introduced mostly by media for public discourse are so misguided. Is the issue really whether we call this a Civil Rights issue/movement? Seems to me that if 7 million people came here illegally, that the US was well aware of it...and allowed it for the sake of our economy. Yet aaaalllll of a sudden...Couple things missing from this so-called discourse, is why so many are illegal...what does it take to come here legally? Also, why no fuss about our border to the north? Is it bec they can blend (kind of like indentured servants back in the day? I'm not suggesting that black folks should automatically be more sensitive to the cause, but why the hell do so many feel entitled to be so overtly racist about it! Damn. Anything to build ourselves up, I suppose.
Also, why no fuss about our border to the north? Is it bec they can blend (kind of like indentured servants back in the day?my thoughts exactly. i would say because 1)they are harder to "detect" because they are white. and 2) it's an issue of class. but i wonder how many Canadian folks are here illegally? the numbers are probably higher than we think.
I don't think you can compare Canada with Mexico because Canada is a 1st world country and Mexico is third world. If you look up the information from the World Fact book (http://126.96.36.199/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mx.html) you will clearly see why illegal immigrants coming from Canada is not a problem. If illegal immigrants can get rights for breaking the law, every black person that have gone to jail on soft charges like marijuana should get amnesty too. If they are willing to work with us, I would be willing to work with them. But, you know, they don't even like their Black people in Mexico.
It is definitely not comparable to the civil rights movement. @Stephen Bess – You stated, “I'm just not feeling the crunch and I could give a damn if I have to pay a little extra in taxes.” You pointed out a little downside to supporting illegal immigration. My question to you is: What do WE gain by supporting it? Other minorities depend on our support, in order to put a sense of urgency and harsh treatment on THEIR cause, but none of these people come here with the intent of working with US. They all come here with the intent of building wealth, and in the end they compete with US for our resources. And not just for low labor jobs, either. They compete with us for property, for business building, for school aid, etc. In the end they combine and focus all their wealth within their OWN community, and close the doors off to us once that community is flourishing. These communities were once black neighborhoods, with the potential for our own growth. They do not support black business’s, they compete with them. They do not hire black workers, they hire their own. If you take a look at what the most outspoken Hispanic leaders have said in defense of illegal immigrants, it always come with a huge bash or insult to Black America. In the long run it is not about the illegal immigrants, b/c they will work hard, and consider themselves just working to build a future for their kids. THEIR KIDS, and sometimes the same generation of illegals, will grow up and get an education, and begin to follow the process I outlined above. This is Capitalist America, and it seems kinda self-destructive to support your known and fierce competitors.
In the long run it is not about the illegal immigrants, b/c they will work hard, and consider themselves just working to build a future for their kids. THEIR KIDS, and sometimes the same generation of illegals, will grow up and get an education, and begin to follow the process I outlined above.but isn't this the goal of all of us? to grow up and support OUR own kids? i don't really think you can knock then for supporting each other, when we (black people) don't do the same thing. even if they were here legally, which a lot are, wouldn't they still become property owners? business owners? and support their communities and their kids?i agree w/ a lot of what's said on both sides, but i do feel like a lot of the anti-illegal things i've heard have been very racist. and we should be careful not to turn this into a racial debate. an "us vs them" debate.
"Couple things missing from this so-called discourse, is why so many are illegal...what does it take to come here legally? Also, why no fuss about our border to the north? Is it bec they can blend (kind of like indentured servants back in the day?"i posit because the economies of the our neightbors are so drasticlly different. I dont see conditions and wages in Canada as being so bad as to drive people to march on foot for days to try and get a crack @ Jesusland. Mexico- the conditions are awful- and the mexican govt. has a huge responsiblity here.
I don't intend to "knock" them, for holding strong family values. Collectively, there is a problem in the black "community", which is what we should be focusing on, but not all of us suffer from this affliction. The blacks who cherish their children, should be the people we hold up as shining examples, so others can learn from that (hopefully), NOT comparing our shortcomings to others. "but isn't this the goal of all of us? to grow up and support OUR own kids?" This SHOULD be the goal of everyone. So let's focus on that in OUR community."even if they were here legally, which a lot are, wouldn't they still become property owners? business owners? and support their communities and their kids?"For those that are here legally...GREAT. I applaud them for building the Hispanic communities that are already here and are safe havens for any Spanish speaking person. Let them come legally and build a life, then. I feel like this is not in our best interest, nor is it our fight. If anything we should be taking example from the tactics they used to secure communities (such as "Little Cuba" In Florida) for the uplifiting of Hispanics in America, and employing them for OURselves. Not fighting their fight for them. The point is in the end, we can rely on them NOT supporting our causes in the same way. This has already been an issue in the past. If it is for the benefits of blacks ONLY they will not support it. We really need to focus on rebuilding and reclaiming OUR communities as flourishing financial havens for US, not worrying about whether or not we support another minority. We are the only people who are expected to do this, and the majority of us are not even willing/recent immigrants. I don't hear anyone questioning whether the Asians support the immigration bill, and they are MOSTLY recent IMMIGRANTS.I am not really sure what things have been said by blacks in response to this, or if you can call any of it "racist". We don't control their means to survival. But you're right, it is also not in our best interest to go around and start creating or fueling ethnic hatred against them. Until we (Black People) come together as a people, I think it is immpossible to stop individual blacks from expressing their anger inappropriately, and also wrong to clump us ALL together and hold us ALL responsible collectively for a few peoples harsh and irrational behavior. From what I can see, a lot of responsible blacks have refrained from public discussion of their feelings on this.
I think a lot of black folk may have mixed feelings about Mexicans because they feel that they are just another in a long line of immigrant groups who are ultimately going to get treated better than African Americans - I mean that's been a pattern in America's history - while black people have been in the US for the last 400/ 500 years, and basically built America, the immigrant groups (even illegal) are eventually considered as "better" than African Americans. Additionally, as Cynthia commented, they don't like their black people in Mexico. When my brother visited Mexico, he found it to be very racist...Mexicans can also be pretty racist to African Americans in the US (their own country)! - I became aware of this when I was in LA. At the same time I very much agree with Emerging Phoenix's comments ie that we should focus on building our black communities:Collectively, there is a problem in the black "community", which is what we should be focusing on...If anything we should be taking example from the tactics they used to secure communities (such as "Little Cuba" In Florida) for the uplifiting of Hispanics in America, and employing them for OURselves. Not fighting their fight for them. The point is in the end, we can rely on them NOT supporting our causes in the same way. This has already been an issue in the past. If it is for the benefits of blacks ONLY they will not support it. We really need to focus on rebuilding and reclaiming OUR communities as flourishing financial havens for US, not worrying about whether or not we support another minority.
This is a great thread!J, the reason the schools are overloaded and the cost of healthcare is high is that health and education are generally underfunded in this country. I would suggest that your son's problems are more a result of the way things are being run generally than they are the fault of the immigrants--whose presence here is clearly advantageous to the corporations which employ them.Here's something interesting: post-Katrina New Orleans is full of temporary Mexican and other Latin American workers, legal and not. The people who have been displaced from the city are primarily African-American.The plan for the city appears to be, to make it white. It is therefore practical for those in charge of operations to block the return of the original residents, and hire _temporary_ and semi-transient workers to rebuild the city...and then leave it to the new white majority.
professor zero,that is not news to us. and if there were fewer students the crunch would hurt less.And at the end o fthe day....It's ILLEGAL!